Saint Augustine on the Trinity

Speaker 1 0:00

Well , today we're going to read a few texts . Last time we left off we had read a little bit , perhaps most of On the Trinity by Saint Augustine , book 9 , section 1 , and then 1-5 , paragraph paragraphs 1 to 5 , 8 . And this is from the translation of Burnaby , slightly revised by Wiles and Santer . It comes from the book Documents in Early Christian Thought , cambridge University Press , by Maurice Wiles and Mark Santa editors . So I want to go back to the beginning of this De Trinitate on the Trinity , and read through it again in a deliberate manner , paying close attention to detail . So the object of our present inquiry is Trinity , not a Trinity but the Trinity which is God , the true , supreme and only God . The reader , then , must be patient . We are still inquiring , and such inquiry deserves no censure , provided that our search for what must baffle knowledge and expression be made in unshakable faith . We're still inquiring , we've already talked about that , so I won't dwell on that .

Speaker 1 1:44

Affirmation , indeed , calls at once and rightly for censure from any who may see and instruct to better purpose . Seek the Lord and your soul shall live , psalm 69 , 32 . But we are warned against any rash boast of having already attained . Seek his face always . Psalm 105 , 4 . If anyone thinks that he knows something he does not yet know , as he ought to know . But if one loves God , one is known by him . 1 Corinthians 8 , 2-3 . He does not say has known him , which would be dangerous presumption , but is known by him . So , elsewhere , after saying now that you have come to know God , he at once corrects himself rather , are known by God . Galatians 4 , 9 . And most emphatic is that other passage Brethren , I do not consider that I have attained , but one thing I do forgetting what lies behind and reaching out to what lies ahead , I am intent to follow after the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus . Therefore , let those of us who are perfect be thus minded . Philippians 3 , 13-15 . By perfection in this life he understands nothing but to forget the things which lie behind and to reach out intently after the things which lie ahead .

Speaker 1 3:38

We're going to say more about this from a Cappadocian perspective when we look again at St Gregory of Nyssa . The safest intention is that of seeking continually until the goal of all our effort and our reaching out be attained . The intent is rightly directed only if it sets out from faith . Rightly directed only if it sets out from faith . A sure faith is itself a beginning of knowledge . But sure knowledge will not be perfected till after this life , when we shall see face to face . There , in that brief line , you have the credo ut intelligam . I believe that I might understand , and you also have the underlining of St Augustine's understanding that sure knowledge , as he calls it knowledge of God , is given in the life to come , not yet , not now , but later . Hugely significant difference between what we find in the Orthodox tradition and in the post-Augustinian Western theological tradition . So , but sure knowledge will not be perfected till after this life , when we shall see face to face . There's no face to face in this line , only in patria .

Speaker 1 5:19

Faith versus knowledge . Let us then be thus minded , convinced that the temper of the truth seeker is safer than that of rashly taking the unknown for known . Let us seek as expecting to find , and let us find as expecting still to seek , for when a man has finished , he is just beginning to seek , for when a man has finished , he is just beginning . Ecclesiasticus 18.7 . Let us shun all doubt concerning matters of faith . Let us refuse all hasty affirmation concerning matters of understanding in the one , holding to authority , in the other seeking out the truth . We have a reference here to the analogy of faith and , in matters of understanding , the analogy of being the analogia entis . Yes , let us shun all doubt concerning matters of faith . Let us refuse all hasty affirmation concerning matters of understanding in the one , holding to authority auctoritas , in the other , seeking out the truth , veritas . As for our present inquiry , let us believe that Father , son and Holy Spirit are one God , maker and ruler of the whole creation .

Speaker 1 6:58

It's interesting here that Saint Augustine has no doubt that Father , son and Holy Spirit are one God and at the same time maker and ruler of the whole creation . That Father is not Son , nor Holy Spirit Father or Son , but a trinity of mutually related persons and a unity of equal essence and a unity of equal essence . So he's rejecting here , he's making sure that we don't think in a modalist sense regarding God . The Father is uniquely the Father , the Son is uniquely the Son and the Holy Spirit is uniquely and distinctively the Holy Spirit and they are not to be confused as persons . But he says this is a trinity of mutually related persons , because this is how he's going to go on to explain the distinctiveness of each of these divine persons and a unity of equal essence and let us seek to understand this truth , praying for the help of him whom we would understand , and to set forth what we are enabled to understand with such careful reverence as to speak nothing unworthily , even if we sometimes speak mistakenly .

Speaker 1 8:40

Now notice here the tone of St Augustine's language . He is saying forgive me if I make mistakes in the process of presenting to you this mystery as best I can , but what is the problem with that ? I mean , on the surface it's perfectly fine . He's going to talk about a great mystery and he may not be able to do so with exactitude . So what is the problem ? Why would we say that there is a red flag here ? This is a speculation . He's taking data and he's certainly using first of all credo , his faith , but he's already aware that he doesn't know something for sure , and this is a concern . As I say , some people would regard this as a step up from other fathers , because they seem to be rather sure of what they say , the fathers , because they seem to be rather sure of what they say . See , on the psychological level , saint Augustine is a little more impressive . He's allowing for mistakes . Please forgive me if I make a mistake . I'm doing the best I can . He's a bishop . He's writing a speculative treatise .

Speaker 1 10:15

Treatise even if we sometimes speak mistakenly . Why do the fathers not speak mistakenly ? Where does their infallibility come from ? What is the experience that the fathers have that their theology is based on ? So , to approach it from a slightly different angle , or question what is theology ?

Speaker 1 10:31

We said , in reference to the day of Pentecost , that the apostles did not receive ideas about God , concepts about God , on the day of Pentecost , what did they receive ? What did they experience ? The Holy Spirit , what happened when they experienced the Holy Spirit ? What was revealed to them ? Doesn't the Lord say that the other comforter will lead them into all the truth , will lead them into all the truth . Well , what is that ? So the Holy Spirit enables us to see Christ , because who is the truth ? Jesus Christ . Again , it's not an idea , it's not a concept . It's the second hypostasis of the Holy Trinity . Who is the image of God is revealed in and through the Holy Spirit . Didn't they know Christ before ? They knew Christ before ? But what does the Holy Spirit reveal ? Christ as God and Creator . You know , we were created in His image , according to the image of God , to use the biblical language more precisely . So we were created according to the image of God . He , who is the image of God , created us in his image . He is the son of God by nature .

Speaker 1 12:29

And then I say to you that I learned my astronomy through books , by reading books on astronomy . In other words , I've never actually looked through a telescope and seen those heavenly bodies of which I know something about . What would you say ? What would I be If I said to you I'm a student of the law , I've studied the law , I've read books about the law , but I've never actually been in a courtroom and I've never acted as an attorney in court . What would you say there ? But I know a lot about it because I've read books , but I've never actually practiced law . What would you say ? Am I a lawyer ? No , you'd have your doubts . Of course , it would be even worse if I said I have tried cases and happened to have lost all of them and that might be even more to the point in some cases or that I'm a surgeon and unfortunately , none of my patients survived the surgery . None of my patients survived the surgery . So if I say to you I've studied medicine and I know all the details , but I've never actually practiced medicine , I didn't go to spend time as a junior doctor under a surgeon and train under him and then conduct my own surgery and then have a record of surgeries and all of that , then of course you would be right to have some serious doubts about my pedigree as a surgeon .

Orthodox Theology and Divine Experience

Speaker 1 14:18

So why is theology different ? When you study theology and you can speak about the mystery of the Holy Trinity on the basis of the history of the church , the councils , all of that with a certain exactitude , does that mean you are a theologian ? We're going to come back to that question when we look at Gregory the theologian , because he says more about that . So too does Gregory of Nyssa . But what I want to really make as clear as possible to you is this empirical , experiential character of the basis of Orthodox theology .

Speaker 1 15:01

I'll give you a simple liturgical example to illustrate the point further . We have the greatest anaphora , the greatest divine Eucharist ever written , the divine liturgy of Saint Basil the Great . And why is it that ? This anaphora , the anaphora of St John Chrysostom , the other great anaphoras that are part of our tradition and heritage , why is it that I can't just sit down and write an anaphora ? Because people do .

Speaker 1 15:39

You look at the Reformed tradition , you look at the Roman Catholic tradition after Vatican II and they'll produce alternative anaphoras which , on the face of it , they're anaphoras . Why can they never have that place ? Why can they never have that place , the place that St Basil's in Afra has , the place that St John Chrysostom's in Afra has ? See many Protestants . They're very sharp . They'll go back to the earliest times of the church and , through the Holy Scriptures , they'll see that .

Speaker 1 16:15

Well , you know what the Anaphras , the Eucharistic prayers , used to be prayed extemporaneously , and they're right . So that's what they will do . They'll say , well , we want to be biblical , and they do that . Why is that not acceptable for us ? Why don't we do that ? We have that centuries old , unbroken tradition . We wanted to . We could do that very easily , couldn't we ? Why don't we do that ? Why do we stay with the anaphora of St Basil the Great , st John Chrysostom , St James and the others ? Why is there nothing to add ? How can that be so ?

Speaker 1 16:56

So again , bringing this back to how these Eucharistic prayers were written , what are they the fruit of ? Are they the fruit of a brilliant man sitting down and gathering together all these ideas and then expressing them in a beautifully poetic way ? Or are they the fruit of the experience , the experience of Christ , the vision of Christ in glory . It's very important for us to understand this basic , simple fact of the life of the church , of the life of the church , because sometimes we say prayer is the guide of all things , and that's true . But what kind of prayer , what kind of experience within the prayerful tradition of the saints of the church ? Extremely important . And it just so happens that this is the hardest aspect of the life of the Orthodox Church , the teachings of the Orthodox Church , the tradition of the Orthodox Church that the West finds so difficult to accept .

Speaker 1 18:15

Because , well , because of various reasons , I remember sitting in a seminar once upon a time at Oxford and the seminar was about the place of the Holy Spirit in systematic theology . And there was an Arian , great admirer of Eunomius . I sat through a whole semester of lectures on Arianism given by an Arian . There was the former Archbishop of Canterbury who wrote on Vladimir Lossky , the critique of Vladimir Lossky , saint Gregory Palamas , the whole Orthodox tradition , and there were others . And there was one American PhD student who was writing his thesis on Gregory of Nyssa . He began to speak about how remarkable St Gregory of Nyssa's understanding of the Holy Spirit is and how experience experience of the Holy Spirit , the common experience of the Holy Spirit , is central to his understanding of the place of the Holy Spirit in the life of the church , etc . Etc . And as I was listening to him I thought oh , this is wonderful , this is very orthodox . But I might have been the only person in the room who thought that , because everybody else was totally unimpressed .

Speaker 1 19:49

And I wondered about that and realized after a while that systematic theology , of course , is based on what these people consider to be something sure and tangible . You know human logic , reason , and indeed the logos is understood as reason . When you say logos , a Western Christian who has studied these things thinks logos . So you have reason . And then you have in their experience you have this word experience which unfortunately to them seems so subjective . And you have all these groups of people , many of which seem to claim that they have a certain experience that reason cannot challenge in any way , and they probably do , but they're different kinds of experience .

Orthodox Experience and Theological Balance

Speaker 1 20:58

And then , to the dismay of these scholars , whether they're Roman Catholic scholastics or whether they're sola scriptura Protestants , the whole edifice of what they have is based on reason , either directly or indirectly . And these groups of people over here who emphasize experience are just hand clapping and speaking in tongues and all of that kind of thing . And so if anybody comes along and says something , even orthodox , with a small o , and in this case about St Gregory of Nyssa and how common experience is a key , they don't want to have anything to do with it . It's too much . It's too much chaos . You're introducing too much chaos into the life of the church and there it is . So you have to be very careful in how you present the orthodox emphasis on experience , especially when in dialogue with Western Christians , because they might perceive you in this way and then they've stopped listening to you . And in fact it's very much the two hands of God , as we find in the analogy preserved in Irenaeus , the logos and the spirit that's the Orthodox understanding is very much contained in that , because you have a balance .

Speaker 1 22:33

But it's not that we don't have any theology . We have an abundance of the theological word in the Orthodox tradition . The question is , what is the source of that theological word ? Where does it come from ? What is it based on ? St Paul talks about a cloud of witnesses , so we'll say more about that in due course . It's time for a break and then , when we come back , we'll continue our reading of the De Trinitate of St Augustine . Please subscribe to our channel and share with your friends . Click on the join button below our video and become a friend or reader of the Mount Tabor Academy . Support our drive to introduce the theology and spiritual life of the Orthodox Church to the wider community .